Practical AEO guide to get ChatGPT, Gemini and other LLMs to recommend your product. A low-cost, 7-step playbook for small businesses and nonprofits focused on citations, head vs tail, and quick wins.

Win LLM Recommendations: Practical AEO Strategies for Small Teams

The ultimate guide to AEO: How to get ChatGPT to recommend your product

Ethan Smith is the CEO of Graphite—the leading SEO growth agency—and my go-to expert on SEO. After 18 years of mastering traditional SEO, Ethan has been at the forefront of what is called AEO: answer engine optimization, or, more simply, getting your product to show up in ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini/Perplexity answers. He’s discovered that ChatGPT traffic converts six times better than Google search—and most companies are completely missing this opportunity.

*In our conversation, we discuss:*
1. His 7-step playbook to rank #1 in ChatGPT
2. Why ChatGPT traffic converts 6x better than Google
3. How early-stage startups can win at AEO immediately (unlike with SEO, which takes years)
4. The three tactics that actually work: landing pages, YouTube videos, and Reddit comments
5. Why help-center content can suddenly be your highest-ROI investment
6. The specific Reddit strategy that works (spoiler: be authentic)
7. Why AI-generated content doesn’t work

*Brought to you by:*
Orkes—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflows: https://www.orkes.io/
Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny
Great Question—Empower everyone to run great research: https://www.greatquestion.com/lenny

*Transcript:* https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-aeo-ethan-smith

*My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers):* https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/172703231/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation

*Where to find Ethan Smith:*
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/ethan_l_s
• LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ethans-linkedin
• Graphite: https://graphite.io/
• Graphite Research Papers: https://bit.ly/graphite-five-percent

*Where to find Lenny:*
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

*In this episode, we cover:*
(00:00) Welcome back, Ethan
(04:34) The changing landscape of SEO
(06:19) AEO (answer engine optimization) vs. GEO (generative engine optimization)
(08:13) The impact of AEO
(11:51) How early-stage startups can win at AEO
(14:34) The quality of AEO leads
(15:35) On-site vs. off-site traffic
(16:32) Reddit’s role in AEO and avoiding spam
(20:11) How AI models use citations (RAG)
(21:41) Key principles for winning at AEO
(25:00) Avoiding hyper-SEOed content, and the importance of originality
(28:55) Actionable AEO playbook: steps and experiments
(33:35) Tracking, measuring, and share of voice
(38:34) Adapting AEO for B2B, commerce, and early-stage companies
(41:11) Is letting AI index your content good?
(43:06) Experimentation, control groups, and measuring results
(46:15) The future of AEO, SEO, and search channels
(51:35) AI-generated content: what works and what doesn’t
(55:25) The dangers of infinite AI derivatives
(58:44) The future: convergence of LLMs and search
(01:00:40) Help-center optimization and the long tail
(01:03:18) Lightning round and final thoughts

*Referenced:*
• AEO Tools: https://bit.ly/graphite-aeo-tool
• The ultimate guide to SEO | Ethan Smith (Graphite): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-seo-ethan-smith
• Inside ChatGPT: The fastest-growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley
• Webflow: https://webflow.com/
• YouTube: https://youtube.com/
• Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/
• Quora: https://www.quora.com/
• An inside look at Deel’s unprecedented growth | Meltem Kuran Berkowitz (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-deels-unprecedented
• Dotdash Meredith: https://www.people.inc/
• Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/
• Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/
• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/
• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/
• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/
• Claude: https://claude.ai/
• TechRadar: https://www.techradar.com/
• Yelp: https://www.yelp.com
• Tripadvisor: https://www.tripadvisor.com/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/
• Why ChatGPT will be the next big growth channel (and how to capitalize on it) | Brian Balfour (Reforge): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-chatgpt-will-be-the-next-big-growth-channel-brian-balfour
• AI SEO: Latest Market Intelligence & Landscape Analysis—Summer Sessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm589PmhIOY
• AI Content Study: https://bit.ly/ai-content-white-paper
• Free AI detector: https://surferseo.com/ai-content-detector/
• Common Crawl: https://commoncrawl.org/
• AI models collapse when trained on recursively generated data: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y
• Looker: https://cloud.google.com/looker/
...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-aeo-ethan-smith

_Production and marketing by https://penname.co/._
_For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com._

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

The ultimate guide to AEO: How to get ChatGPT to recommend your product | Ethan Smith (Graphite)

Practical product-management frameworks for small teams and nonprofits: pre-mortems, the LNO prioritization model, three levels of product work, opportunity-cost thinking, and high agency.

Product Frameworks That Move the Needle for Small Teams

The art of product management: Five frameworks that actually move the needle (for small businesses and nonprofits)

Shreyas Doshi is a treasure trove of wisdom and tactical insights on product, strategy, psychology, leadership, and life. Over the course of his career, he’s PM’d at Google, Twitter, Yahoo, and Stripe—where he joined as its fourth product manager, later becoming Stripe’s first PM manager and helping define and grow its product management function from ~5 to more than 50 people. Since leaving Stripe, Shreyas has amassed a huge Twitter following in large part thanks to consistent sharing of high-quality insights on the art of product management.

Where to find Shreyas Doshi:
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/shreyas
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shreyasdoshi/

Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:
• Coda template: https://coda.io/@shreyas/pre-mortems-how-a-stripe-product-manager-predicts-prevents-probl
• Pre-mortems: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1221257568510603264
• LNO framework: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1492345184171945984
• Three levels of product work: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1370248637842812936
• Execution problems: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1427116991274307588
• Opportunity-cost thinking: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1409726218438549514
• High agency: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1276956836856393728

Episode transcripts: 
https://www.lennyspodcast.com/shreyas-doshi-on-pre-mortems-the-lno-framework-the-three-levels-of-product-work-why-most-execution-problems-are-strategy-problems-and-roi-vs-opportunity-cost-thinking/#transcription 

In this episode, we cover:
[00:00] Shreyas’ upbringing and path into product management
[14:22] Lessons from working at Stripe, Twitter, Google, and Yahoo
[27:12] How pre-mortem meetings impacted the culture at Stripe
[33:23] What are the best practices in running a pre-mortem meeting?
[39:27] The LNO framework: What is it and how did it change the way Shreyas went about his day?
[48:06] The two-step tactic you can apply to overcome procrastination on important tasks
[53:19] The three levels of product work and which level should you optimize for
[56:46] How might these product work levels cause conflict or influence your company culture?
[1:03:43] Common types of problems hiding behind the execution label
[1:05:14] Two traits you need to identify a fake execution problem
[1:13:10] The pitfall of ROI thinking
[1:21:03] What is opportunity-cost thinking and how can you apply it?

Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible:
• Coda: https://coda.io/lenny
• Productboard: https://www.productboard.com/
• Sprig: https://sprig.com/lenny

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquires about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

The art of product management | Shreyas Doshi (Stripe, Twitter, Google, Yahoo)

Turn your customer journey into a measurable growth engine. Use simple visuals and a six-question inventory to align marketing, sales, and operations for predictable growth.

Design a Practical Growth Engine to Align Strategy and Operations

How to Build a Growth Engine for Strategy and Operations Alignment

Today, I'm going to show you how to create your own Value Engine. This is probably the single most important thing you can do for your business. It's a visualisation of how you acquire customers in your business. As a result, you'll have more clarity around bottlenecks, opportunities and optimisations. It takes 1-2 hours to make one, but I promise you won't regret it.

Ps. I always get asked which software I use. The tool you use doesn't really matter. My advice is to keep it simple with sticky notes and a whiteboard.

🌟 If you liked this video, check out: How to Grow Your Business from $10M to $200M (Scalable Operating System): https://youtu.be/nSJL_q5PSE0
————————————
📞 Want to work together? Let us install our $200M Scalable Operating System™️ in your business for you: https://scalable.co/sos-free-training/
————————————
Follow Me On:
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ryandeiss
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/
————————————
⌚️ Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:33 - What's a Growth Engine?
04:00 - The Tools You Need 
04:53 - The Symbols You Need
07:02 - Step 1: Inventory Your Growth Assets
11:22 - Step 2: Select Growth Engine To Be Mapped
12:09 - Step 3: Define The Start and End
13:34 - Step 4: Brainstorm Tasks and Activities Between the Start and Finish
17:55 - Example 1
21:36 - Example 2
24:25 - Step 5: Stakeholder Review
26:38 - My Growth Engine Cheat Sheet
27:25 - Key Takeaways
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#ryandeiss #thescalablecompany #scalableoperatingsystem

How to Make Your Business Growth Engine (Step-by-Step)

Where small nonprofits and grassroots organizations can learn practical strategies to increase impact while strengthening resilience.

Small Nonprofits

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Where small businesses can learn practical strategies to grow and scale while strengthening resilience.

Small Organizations

Nonprofits

The ultimate guide to AEO: How to get ChatGPT to recommend your product

The art of product management: Five frameworks that actually move the needle (for small businesses and nonprofits)

How to Build a Growth Engine for Strategy and Operations Alignment

Small Organizations